Lister ( Listeroids) engines

Where to start,, other than Lister's are a work of art being a good solid unit when first built and still hard to beat now for a super long life engine. This engine dates back to 1928 as being the first diesel engine that could be started without added outside heat, or a blow torch pre heating a glow bulb or intake air. 

The way Lister company did this was by using a 2 stage compression valve to up the compression ratio for running compression of 14.5 to one to around 17.5 compression ratio for starting cold. Once started and warmed up some then one could  back off the compression change over valve screw out to lower the running compression ratio for less overall stress and a much longer engine life.

Simple idea and worked great with no complex systems to fail.  Now allot of the newer Listeroids built in India use a direct injection head and did away with the prechamber along with the dual compression valve.  No major loss and I'm sure saved machining cost along with the better engines oil not an issue as it was 50 years ago for a long engine life. Most India clones all run under 18 to one compression ratios.

Many people that were handling the Listeriods imported from India, and let me just say that some were good engines company's with some pride built into them, and others are just large fence anchors or pure junk. So be careful as not all are made equal!

 All of them can suffer from issues like casting sand left inside the crankcase, and poor fit on the cam gears. All of this should be taken care of before ever starting them up the first time.  It better to be safe then sorry!. Once the rod bearing is tore up with sand, and the crank journal is damaged your engines life will be cut short. So please inspect a new engine well before running the first time. The hidden sand is not found in the bottom of the crankcase as much as being stuck under the cam support or cylinder area towards the top of the engine block.

A good source of data, and info about all Listeroids can be found from George Breckenridge of www.utterpower.com . This fellow has earned the title of one of the top guru's of all imported diesel engines.   His name shows up all over the Internet as knowing everything about them and how to repair, modify, or even turbo them.  He also gets into solar, oil presses, producer gas, off site off grid power.  Just a wonderful site.

George also is the leader of knowing all about the simple ST generator heads along with parts, and info that is best in the world. 

George's world wide contacts also embrace a data pool next to perfect..

Now back to the Lister story. 

I personally have 5 of them. A very well used 6/1,, ( 6hp one cyl ) with over 25,000 hours and never had the head off. Its powering a 5kw St generator head and powers my shop with power with main line power outages.   It still starts and runs well and uses little oil. 

 I also have a 24/2 as back up power for my farm house. Its powering a 15 kw ST head which has ran for several weeks at a time after several Kansas ice storms. 

The main engine I have is my 28/2 which powers my 10 ton Mammoth oil seed press.  Its gaining on engine hours but is just now broke in well and running right after some 2550 engine hours.

This past winter I picked up a 14/2 and a 20/2 as I have plans to go off grid when the carbon tax game starts and we see our power rates go up 50%.  The 20/2 has my son in laws name on it as he also lives way out in RR America with allot of power lines down with summer thunder storms and winters ice.

 

The main fact about all Lister's is there fuel usage. About 1/2 of that of any newer high speed diesel.  If you go to any newer EPA engine company's web site and read up about there engines,, its normal to see a g/hp/hr rating. ( grams of fuel /per horse power /hour) Most newer engines use 470-550 grams of fuel per hp/ hour.  The old Lister's hammer away on about 275-285 grams/hp/hour.. Slow speed is the ticket here. It holds a mouth full of heat energy 3 times longer than a higher speed engine. And they are built to take it!  A 6hp 6/1 tips the scale at around 750 lbs.. A 28/2 is almost 1200 lbs of solid cast iron and steel.  I feel the main reason Lister company dropped making them around 1971 from there engine line up is the shipping costs, and they seldom ware out!

Finding a source to buy them is getting harder every day.  Our country's EPA laws and there requirements and testing are not fair to Lister imports as they stand alone in the diesel engine area of not being like any other engine made. I would bet with the proper tuning, and setting the timing right, any new Listeroid could pass without much effort.  But the testing costs can run $25,000 per test and as many as 5 or 6 test might have to be done to get an engine to pass..

(the mother may I game )

 Then no matter that 5 or 6 different company's in India build the same engine,, each would need to be tested..  The next wild card is the fact that a 6/1 is the same engine as an 8/1 or a 16/2 times 2 with the twin cylinder's but each would have to be tested and passed to be able to be sold in the USA..   Now if you are Ford Motor Company and will be selling the same engine in cars and pick-ups and making 80,000 per year of all the same engines the EPA costs is not that much per engine sold.. But I would guess in the hay days of Listeroids sales at best we might be looking at 3600 engines sold per year..

 How can an engine that uses 1/2 the fuel per horse power be a major smog problem?  Get over it mr big brother..

One day they banned them from imports, and the next day they were OK,, as long as they were under 30 hp and are bolted down to the floor and not on wheels.. Then in a heart beat they were black balled again and $1000s of dollars worth were seized at the ports and many people selling them lost a large sum of money.  And what happened to all the seized engines?  I bet about all port inspectors have one tucked away in the back corner of there shop.

  I think the issue or gray area here is the fact as the laws and powers of the EPA is that if they do not power them self's across state lines they can not be controlled by the EPA..  But yet the long arms of the EPA steps up and shuts them down..

Several importers are selling them as a kit,, so you are just buying engine parts.. This gets around the laws, and you can still end up with a new engine.  Since one should be looked over real well before ever starting, this is not a big issue to build one from a parts kit.  Most are selling them as a engine block unit (lower end),, add flywheels and the head and its ready to run.

Some worry that parts will be hard to get.. I am blown away with the number of them in this country.. Old ones from the 1930s and the newer Listeroids.  Go to "You Tube" http://www.youtube.com/  and search Lister, or Listeroids and you will have hours of little movies to watch, and see them run.. Point of view.. They are not as loud as the moves show them. I would guess the movie camera sets the recorded sound level by what sound it has to work with..

Since they have been made in one form or another for 80+ years,, parts are everywhere. Even off EBay,, many folks from England are now selling parts for them. CHEAP!

What it all boils down to is having a Lister running next to your bedroom window at night. A newer high speed generator,, running at 3600 rpms will have you grinding your teeth after a few sleepless hours. My old Listeroid running at 700 rpms is like a grandfathers clock running in the next room.. Clicktia clickta clickta,  A good nights sleep,, is priceless. 

Now I have been told that there are a rash of 2 cyl engines showing problems with the cam shaft and the cam drive gears problems.  Some of the problems deal with the issue that each cam lobe is replaceable and held in place with a taper pin.. The pin seems to be the problem as it can work lose or, crack the cam shaft where the hole is to hold the drift pin.  The other area is the idler gear of the timing gears. The engines has some cam whip in the valve gears with its cam timing and slow speed. Several fellows are now working with this and coming up with kits to adjust the cam gear clearance, and having a better fit on the shaft which holds the cam gear idler.. 

 One fellow is working with a racing car cam shaft manufacturer to just make up a solid 1 piece cam to replace the Lister cam which is all made with replacement lobes.   I'm sure there will be a fix in place in a short time.  So far I'm running my  2 cyl Lister almost every day, but inspecting the cam and drive system at every oil change. This is not hard to do since the Lister's have a huge crankcase side plate one can pull off to inspect the lower crankcase. Its about 22" X 11" in size.  A flashlight and a few minutes with your head down one can see everything.

Since I have posted all this above, I have made friends with Willem Andree. He has been working with Listeroids since  early 2000 and is a gifted mechanist with all the tooling needed to almost build a Lister out of a solid chunk of cast iron.

Willem is working hard at building from imported Lister parts from England a hand fitted engine with the known weak areas of Lister's updated and improved to the point of a 100,000 hour warranty on all his W.C. Andree engines.  That's 11.5 years of running 24/7 folks!

His web site and efforts are a must to study. Only total passion and love of an engine can take a 1928 style engine and gain the performance he is seeing with his efforts. http://www.wcaeaps.com/

 

If I didn't include a news section about my site's topic on my home page, then I could include it here.